Talk: Tranquil Boots

Active and inactive naming

I would prefer the names "Tranquil Boots (Active)" and "Tranquil Boots (Inactive)". Fits better with "Tango (Shared)", "Power Treads (Intelligence)", "Animal Courier (unit)" etc. Molldust (talk) 08:21, 13 April 2016 (UTC)

Done ~~ Bu3ny ^(talk) 11:35, 13 April 2016 (UTC)

Tranquil Boots "Break" ability

It looks the behaviour is actually reversed. The broken state does not have duration, but the active state goes on cooldown instead. It is therefore affected by cooldown reductions. A "Break" ability would mean there's an invisible buff that reduces the native 14 HP regen by 14 to 0.

I'm convinced Tranquil boots have no base HP bonus regen, but a passive ability that goes on CD as soon as a target is hit. I suggest to change the HP regen in the infobox to 0 and change 13 sec duration to 13 sec cooldown. Molldust (talk) 21:49, 11 April 2017 (UTC)

Regarding your changes to Tranquil Boots, what exactly are the reasons for your changes/do you have a clear evidence? (cause e.g. the fact that it is now affected by cooldown reductions might be a bug). — The preceding unsigned comment was added by Psion1C (talk) • (contribs) • Please sign your posts with ~~~~

There's a couple of hints:

1. The boots have an explicit cooldown icon/description ingame.
2. The cooldown is affected by cd reductions.
3. The cd is affected by refresher visually.
4. There's no explicit image / state for a broken second item. Treads, Dagon etc all have their own icon for the repective version.
5. The icon visually goes on cooldown when the break state is induced.
6. Linken's Sphere cooldown get get triggered by enemies as well.
7. There's no buff/debuff for the active/broken state.
8. There's no indication that there are two items in the game.

Molldust (talk) 18:58, 18 April 2017 (UTC)

The question never was whether it is two items or not. It is a single item. We used separate item pages only to get both values used by all the lists.

The question rather is how the item works. Is it a 95 ms 14 regen boots by default and the passive disables the regen and cripple the movement speed (the name would fit this behavior more), or is it a 55 boots 0 regen boots by default and gets boosted while not on cooldown.

The cooldown part doesn't matter. Look at Riki, he uses a cooldown on his passive, without it actually being a real cooldown. It has informational purposes only. Or even better example, Treant's new passive invisibility uses a cooldown display as well, indicating the fade delay. So the cooldown argument is pretty weak. Even further, Tranquil's "cooldown" used to not affect the duration of its broken state. It was changed as a fix. They could have make it work like Riki invis (the cd cannot be altered), but instead they decided to create a unique interaction here. ~~ Bu3ny ^(talk) 20:14, 18 April 2017 (UTC)

Skaaadoooosh. Neither Riki's fade delay, neither Treant's disguise have a cooldown indicator in the tooltip (that's what I meant with my first argument). I'll add Drunken Brawler and Chain Lightning to that list. I bet all those are not affected by CD reductions.

Now take a look at Axe, this guy now has a cooldown tooltip, which is affected by CD reductions (still not updated on Axe). I couldn't proc Helix twice within 0.45 seconds, so I can't confirm whether this is visually only or not. The ability icon itself still has no cooldown timer though.

I'm not sure in what respect Tranquils are a unique interaction. There's only a handful of abilities left that have hard coded cooldowns and those are most likely not intended.

The semantics of "Break" are very weak, yes. So has been the "Feedback" from Diffusal Blade etc etc. Molldust (talk) 19:45, 19 April 2017 (UTC)

To sum this up: Fade delay is no cooldown. The timer on the icon is only a visual feedback for the fade delay but not necessarily connected to the cooldown. The tooltip cooldown tells us that the ability is wired up with the generic cooldown interface (for cd manipulation), but does not necessarily make use of it (Axe - although this should be changed).

I gonna leave the default boots to 65 MS / 0 HP regen with no strong feelings against a change. The current state is comparable to Heart, but who knows how things work inside. The next question is, does it even matter how it works or how we define it. The end result is the same. Molldust (talk) 09:33, 21 April 2017 (UTC)

Edit: Illusion have the "broken" boots by default. This indicates that the base MS of the boots is indeed 65, because illusions don't make use of item actives. Molldust (talk) 09:38, 21 April 2017 (UTC)

And what movement speed do the illusions have - the +65 or the +90? Take into account that the unit interface ms number might be wrong, so compare how fast an illu moves to the real hero. (can't test this currently, otherwise I would have posted the result) --Psion1C (talk) 10:00, 21 April 2017 (UTC)

Illusions are 25 ms slower, both in the hud and map. I checked with CK aghs because Manta has %MS bonus. Molldust (talk) 11:45, 21 April 2017 (UTC)

Seeing all of the stats the item provides is more useful than whatever "base" value it has. As it is right now, the page makes no sense because Break is still worded in a way that says you lose stats, but those stats aren't actually indicated as something the boots have. Add a note that illusions receive broken boots that don't un-break. Team Liquid's wiki page for these (no link, since I'm a new user on this wiki) is a good presentation.

I may make the change myself later but I'm a bit busy at the moment. -Siosilvar (talk) 23:57, 22 April 2017 (UTC)

Yes, I think it would be best to have it fitting with the official ability description, reverting it to how it was before. Also, the npc_items.txt uses "bonus_movement_Speed" for all boots. The broken speed value uses a different wording. Same goes for the armor(now unused) and regen stats. ~~ Bu3ny ^(talk) 00:21, 23 April 2017 (UTC)

Guys, now it is plainly wrong. The boots are affected by cd rections for a fact and there's no way around it, no matter how many different states and extra coding is involved. It's just a simple cooldown. This field is no longer used:

"07"
{
 "var_type" "FIELD_INTEGER"
 "break_time" "13"
}

I'll do the SMW part properly now, it's no use to constantly change everything based and forth based on speculations. Molldust (talk) 07:55, 23 April 2017 (UTC)

As I said before, the cooldown does not matter for passive abilities. I could create a passive ability with an AoE effect and put the AoE value into the cooldown field and still have it work normally. I could make the codes call the cooldown value for its AoE and still have it use a cooldown by calling a different value, or by even hardcoding the value (see Axe). If it would be a simple cooldown, then it wouldn't have a bugged behavior with cooldown resetting effects. And you mentioned Linken's Sphere, that item has issues with its cooldown as well (in some cases it still uses the old cooldown of 16 seconds, instead of 13), simply because of how cooldowns are handled on passive effects. ~~ Bu3ny ^(talk) 11:50, 23 April 2017 (UTC)