Noteworthiness of upwards movement
I really have a lot of doubts with actually mentioning the Z position movement. Because, to me, this is really negligible as it has seriously very little effect on the game itself, only that attack projectiles take a tiny bit longer to reach their target (which I will say, from my experience, is seriously so little you rarely even notice it). I know the reason why you can pass through units thrown upwards is not because they're flung upward, but because they lose collision size. Also, this line: "as a unit can only block another unit when they are on roughly the same Z position", I don't buy this. Because someone can stand at the bottom of a slope/stairs on the map, yet still block the path of those coming from uphill, and vice versa. Arbok77 (talk) 09:41, 11 June 2016 (UTC)
- SO you say it should be removed? There is no reason to not keep it. Even when it has tiny gameplay impact, why remove it? And no, units do not lose their col size when moving upwards. I did test it without spells, by setting a unit's position to certain heights. Some units are blocked earlier than others when moving units upwards. This means a unit's hitbox height even matters for this.
- About the ramp stuff, it makes sense. If you move up a ramp, you are moving up, against the unit who stands up the cliff. At one point, he will block you because you get on about the same height as they do. Ramps are not very high, the difference is only about 100 units, which is close enough to block units.
- ~~ Bu3ny (talk) 11:49, 11 June 2016 (UTC)
- Yes, I am suggesting to remove it. Well, considering this wiki is very tedious and stuff about the things included in its articles. Pointless or redundant information is usually removed. And while you do make a point that there's no reason to not keep it, well there's also no reason to keep it. Listing spells that change Z axis is... what? I mean, I know we keep technically more "useless" stuff in this wiki like trivia, but at least those have meaning lore-wise, and is an integral part of the game, actually. But this one, I simply don't get the use of knowing these.
- Kunkka's Torrent is included in the list of abilities that change movement. ...and all it does is change upward movement which has no great impact in gameplay. ...why include it? It's kinda cluttering stuff. If upward movement has very small effects in this game, what's the use of knowing it? It's not like, say, Phoenix' Icarus Dive in which the total distance traveled means something, like losing this much health with Rupture or mana with Mana Leak. But Torrent's upward movement? As for the ramp stuff, okay so you got me there. But seriously though. It's not like this game is like, an FPS. Upward height rarely ever matters. Arbok77 (talk) 15:24, 11 June 2016 (UTC)
- But it has gameplay impact. That alone is more than reason enough to keep it. It also matters for Overthrow and that other Valve custom game mode. The axe pendelum trap uses a 3 dimensional hitbox to hit enemies. For example, if you are too up high in the air, it will not hit you. Other things for which height matters are the shop areas and the neutral spawn boxes. You cannot access the shop when you are too high in the air and you can't block spawn camps when too high in the air. And if you play heroes like Nyx, Lion or Kunkka, then you should know that upward movement does matter. Did you never stack camps with Torrent? Did you never escape a dead-end by impaling an enemy and escaping by walking below them? Also, before you say "lose collision", I say it again, no, they do not lose their collision. For example, you cannot move below a unit lifted by Blinding Light, Greater Bash or Flamebreak, despite them moving up, too. But they move up by just a little, so you cannot move below them. If you'd make them move units up by at least like 200, then you can pass below them.
- Dota2's world is 3 dimensional and it has gameplay impact. There is absolutely no reason to remove that section. The wiki is not a guide to tell you what is important or not, it is supposed to document as much as possible about the game, no matter how much of an impact it has on the game. ~~ Bu3ny (talk) 15:47, 11 June 2016 (UTC)
Stacking camps with upward movement
I'm just curious, don't wanna question the place of upward movement on this wiki in general. I tried to stack camps with different abilities that move units upwards and it didn't work (e.g. Torrent). Was this mechanic changed some time ago or did it only work back in Dota 1? --Psion1C (talk) 22:25, 23 June 2016 (UTC)
- Right, I forgot neutral spawn rules ignore the z position since the spring cleaning. ~~ Bu3ny (talk) 22:49, 23 June 2016 (UTC)
Earth Splitter missing
- Earth Splitter is instant. This page is not about instant movement (aka Teleports). ~~ Bu3ny (talk) 15:16, 14 October 2016 (UTC)
- The values might have been tweaked, but it's definitely still there. ~~ Bu3ny (talk) 11:42, 1 May 2018 (UTC)
BKB (instant spell)
BKB can be cast in-between Skewer and Telekinesis, but not in-between Skewer and most of horizonal disabled forced movement. Does it prove something about forced movement? --Elite stay (talk) 15:38, 23 August 2018 (UTC)
Monkey King's Tree Dance Minimum Distance
Is it true to say that since trees are size of 64x64 and Monkey King's Tree Dance moves him some place near the center of a tree, the minimum distance Tree Dance will move Monkey King is some value between 31 and 33? Is the closest a unit can get to a tree (or to any other unit for that matter) a range of 1? What is the actual minimum distance of Tree Dance? - AceFool (talk) 01:57, 2 May 2020 (UTC)
Determining Height of Units Affected by Certain Abilities
How can I go about determining the height of units affected by certain abilities that do not have the value listed in npc_abilities.txt? Although most abilities have the height provided in the notes for abilities on the hero pages, I'd still like to ensure they remain correct for the current patch, but more importantly, a few abilities do not have the height mentioned in notes at all. For abilities that move a unit in an arc, can it be calculated using known values? Is there some method to determine height in game?
Spit Out: "Snapfire Spit Creep" has these values in npc_abilities.txt: "min_height_above_lowest" "150.0", "min_height_above_highest" "100.0", but I am unsure what they even mean but obviously don't give me the value I am looking to use on this page.
Shield Crash: npc_abilities.txt lists "jump_height_gyroshell" "350" that is not mentioned on the hero page which should be if the height of Shield Crash is in fact 350 instead of 250 when used during Rolling Thunder.
Enchant Totem: The notes state the leap height is always 562 range. npc_abilities.txt lists "scepter_height" "950" and "scepter_height_arcbuffer" "100". Do these values possibly along with some others amount to 562?
- AceFool (talk) 03:13, 2 May 2020 (UTC)
- Just to reiterate to ensure one of my questions was not misunderstood. Are you saying that Shield Crash DOES NOT have a different height when USED DURING Rolling Thunder? There is a value of 350 for "jump_height_gyroshell" in npc_abilities.txt and it does appear to be higher to me when viewed in game.
- Also does the height of Pounce happen to be any different when upgraded with Aghanim's Scepter?
- - AceFool (talk) 06:12, 3 May 2020 (UTC)