Talk:Attack damage

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General talk[edit]

Ursa's Enrage description is outdated.

Removed Enrage. Next time, just remove it yourself, instead of pointing it out here. Bu3ny (talk) 20:55, 29 May 2015 (UTC)

Aren't bashes and invisibility abilities providing backstab damage also sources of flat damage bonus?

No, they are not. If that would be the case, they all could cleave/crit/lifesteal. Although they are summed into one instance in some cases, they are still treated differently. Bu3ny (talk) 01:12, 30 August 2015 (UTC)
And what about Lifestealer's Feast?
Needs some testing first. Does it exactly behave like raw damage bonuses? If yes, add it, if no, don't add it. According to the changelog, it should behave like lets say Double Damage. But I won't draw conclusions from changelogs, but test it first. For example, I did test it with Quelling Blade before adding. It does behave like a raw bonus since 6.84. Bu3ny (talk) 13:43, 31 August 2015 (UTC)

What about adding Ember Spirit's Sleight of Fist and Kunkka's Tidebringer? Psion1C (talk) 23:50, 18 September 2015 (UTC)

Tidebringer, yes. Sleight of Fist, no. SoF isn't registered as attacks (e.g. doesn't proc counter helix/reactive armor/etc). Bu3ny (talk) 02:55, 19 September 2015 (UTC)

What about adding abilities like crits and Bounty Hunter's Shadow Walk? --Psion1C (talk) 13:22, 23 May 2016 (UTC)

BH's Shadow Walk and Vendetta don't add attack damage. They deal their damage in a separate instance. Only Shadow Blade, Silver Edge and Wind Walk directly add to attack damage. ~~ Bu3ny (talk) 14:02, 23 May 2016 (UTC)
And what about adding crits? --Psion1C (talk) 14:12, 23 May 2016 (UTC)
Crits are multiplier, not damage bonuses. ~~ Bu3ny (talk) 14:24, 23 May 2016 (UTC)

Manabreak[edit]

I struggle a lot with the definitions here, so I might have missed a few things. How does Manabreak get into the final damage formula. It is was a flat bonus, it would crit (but it does not). If it was added after reductions/blocks/crit, it wouldn't be reduced by Enfeeble or Static Link (but it is). Molldust (talk) 13:41, 27 December 2015 (UTC)

Mana breaks, along with many other attack modifier which add their dmg on the attack damage, are special cases. They simply count as flat damage bonuses, but their potion is simply not included in crits/cleaves/lifesteal. Note though that the damage type of these do not matter either. For example, MKB acts exactly like them as well, but it's magical damage. I'd say the best thing would be to make a 3rd category under "Attack damage increasing abilities" and make a list for all these there. It would require some ingame testing to see which ones act like this and ones act like regular attack damage bonus. I know that Nethertoxin and Feast are like regular bonuses so they can crit and stuff, but Backstab from Riki, and all the bashes cannot. ~~ Bu3ny (talk) 13:53, 27 December 2015 (UTC)

Hero attack damage section isn't sortable[edit]

Hero attack damage section isn't sortable - all 5 columns should be sortable. Please, make the change. 185.34.22.127 03:19, 8 June 2016 (UTC)

Is it impossible? Or is there another problem ? 176.113.122.107 15:03, 23 March 2017 (UTC)
It should be possible, but it's not that simple. The problem seems to be that noone (including myself) has the time to figure it out and make the necessary changes atm. --Psion1C (talk) 18:22, 23 March 2017 (UTC)
Is it (template or smth) protected from changes by unregistered editors? If not, is anywhere information/documentation about how to do it (tag and queries syntax etc) ?176.113.122.107 18:43, 23 March 2017 (UTC)
The #ask query uses these 3 templates (as you can see in its code): Template:Hero attack damage table el, Template:Hero attack damage table start, Template:Img table end. The changes need to be done to "Hero attack damage table start" and might affect "Img table end" as well. Check the template's page history, and you will see Bu3ny already tried something but it didn't work. I'm fairly new to this kind of problem too, so I can't really give you a lot of info on this. Just check the codes of other similar templates here on the wiki (e.g. Template:Hero attribute table extended start), and search the Internet for wiki help articles etc. --Psion1C (talk) 18:58, 23 March 2017 (UTC)
OK, thanks, I'll try to fix it.176.113.122.107 19:50, 23 March 2017 (UTC)
It's sortable now. ~~ Bu3ny (talk) 21:54, 23 March 2017 (UTC)
I see, thanks. The problem was lack of end-template or what?176.113.122.107

attack damage[edit]

"DOTA_Tooltip_modifier_dragonknight_breathefire_reduction_Description"	"Base attack damage reduced by 35%%."

Breathe Fire do reduce attack damage but not "Base attack damage" defined on wiki. So I think that the "Main attack damage" should be called "Base attack damage" then find another name replacing "Base attack damage". --Elite stay (talk) 17:21, 4 June 2017 (UTC)

No, we stick with our wording. The game is very inconsistent in this regard, it's pointless to base it on one debuff description. ~~ Bu3ny (talk) 17:23, 4 June 2017 (UTC)

physical spell damage type[edit]

According to the 'hero damage' tooltip in the armor type/damage type table physical spell damage uses the hero damage type. But of the four spells that can deal physical spell damage to buildings (Return, Searing arrows, Diabolic Edict, Eye of the Storm), none are reduced by armor type, so they probably don't use the hero damage type. Am I right here? Remark: If i correctly understood it, Exorcism spirits actually attack their target and don't deal spell damage (probably instant attacks) while Searing Arrows, although only dealing 50% damage to buildings, are actually dealing 100% damage to other units with the structure armor type, so the reason is not them using the hero damage type.

I understand the mechanics better now; Exorcism actually does deal spell damage and is an exception, any other spell damage is not affected by armor type unless it's bonus damage to an attack (in which case it just uses the attacker's damage type). As for Searing arrows, it's probably a bug and should be reduced on Siege Creeps.
87.167.20.215 18:45, 28 June 2018 (UTC)

Main Attack Damage[edit]

I did revert to one edit too far back, I know that the change to Main was fine, and that should have been kept. I don't see the points of the brackets though, as we literally explain the formula in the line above. Sanhard (talk) 20:01, 17 October 2018 (UTC)

Confusing terms in Attack Damage section[edit]

I'm new to Dota2 and find this section bewildering because of ill-chosen and ill-defined names and phrases that are sometimes used ambiguously or interchangably. Eventually I will try to sort it out and do my own rewrite of this section. Here are some of the terms:

  • Attack damage
  • basic attack
  • Attack Damage Type (Hero, Basic, Pierce, Siege)
  • total attack damage
  • regular attack
  • physical attack
  • main attack damage
  • bonus damage (same as "flat damage")
  • final attack damage
  • damage
  • main damage
  • base attack damage (1 number? or 2?)
  • Starting Attack Damage
  • Max Main Attack Damage
  • Damage Range
  • base damage
  • ability bonuses
  • bonus attack damage
  • specific abilities

Also, we might give Kevin Godec ("Purge", at PurgeGamers) a credit reference to his "damage = " formula. It is presented in "Learn Dota Episode 4: Mechanics (Stats, Armor and Magic Resistance)" on YouTube.

Also, the 4 links from "Mechanics/Attack mechanics/Attack damage" seem broken:

 Hero damage
 Basic damage
 Pierce damage
 Siege damage

A possible start to the rewrite: (Note: I use the term "basic attack" now because it is used in this gamepedia, but Purge uses the terms "a unit's regular attack" or "primary attack". I'm tempted to change it here since Base and Basic are used for different concepts in Dota2.)

$$$$$$$$$$

 Attack damage
 Damage is any means by which a unit's health points(HP) are reduced.  Heroes, creeps, and towers deal damage.
 Attack damage is the amount of Health Points a target unit loses as a result of a basic attack.
 A basic attack (for example, a Hero auto attacking or right clicking another Hero or creep) is a unit's default attack. It is performed by right clicking the target, or by using the attack command and left clicking the target. 										

$$$$$$$$$$

In addition, there should be more screen shots, and updated ones.

Tommy1TW (talk) 02:09, 4 April 2019 (UTC)

A lot of them are synonymous. I removed/changed the following for now:
* basic attack -> regular attack
* final attack damage -> total attack damage
* bonus damage -> bonus attack damage
* base damage -> base attack damage
* main damage -> main attack damage
* physical attack -> regular attack
So what we have is
* Attack damage: Overall topic name
* Base attack damage: The absolute base values. For heroes, it's the level 0 value in their infoboxes.
* Main attack damage: A hero's attack damage displayed as the white number in the HUD (meaning it includes damage gained from the primary attribute, and damage gained from some spells, e.g. Grow)
* Bonus attack damage: Every + attack damage, which is displayed separately as a green value in the HUD
* Total attack damage: The total sum of attack damage, white + green number, + conditional bonuses like crits, bashes, and what have you.
* Attack damage type: Basic, Hero, Pierce, Siege
* Regular attack: The attack action itself
* Damage range: The difference between the min and max values of the base attack damage
~~ Bu3ny (talk) 20:16, 4 April 2019 (UTC)